*headdesk*
Jan. 16th, 2008 08:31 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gnimaerdI’m sorry you were disappointed by Marian’s death in the final episode of Robin Hood. Our aim was simply to tell the best story we could imagine and create a story that felt engaging and surprising for the audience. We felt that Robin Hood mattered most to our audience, and what mattered most to Robin was Marian...and therein lay the most compelling and dramatic climax to the end of Series 2.
Rest assured that Sir Guy of Gisborne has not got away with killing Marian and evil certainly hasn't prevailed over good. This is something that Sir Guy of Gisborne will have to live with forever and Series 3 will see him struggle with the consequences of Marian's death.
Robin Hood is a returning drama series that we hope will be entertaining families for years to come. In order to achieve this we need to make difficult decisions to ensure the series survives, and that there's room to introduce new characters and new storylines.
The show is made with such passion by everyone involved in the production, so we really hope you will give Series 3 a chance.”
Yours sincerely
Sarah Brandist
Commissioning Editor, Drama
My letter to them, re the RH series finale, is here, for anyone who didn't read it.
Look, I appreciate what they're trying to say. I appreciate that they probably got a LOT of letters like mine and that this may well be a standard responce.
But OH MY GOD they are MISSING THE POINT.
My complaint was not about the story telling. It was not about evil triumphing over good.
It was about the fact that they murdered Marian when it was completely unnecissary to do so, and then exited Djaq in a way that utterly degraded the character. It was the fact that they forced Marian completely out of character in ORDER to kill her. They BUTCHERED her in every sence of the word. It was the fact that they BETRAYED thousands of female viewers by reverting right back to steriotypes that women have been fighting to be free of for CENTURIES. It was the fact that the final was rushed, that the writers went back to default mode and thus reinforced ancient steriotypes that women have been trying to vercome for CENTURIES, in writing, in cinema, in television - I mean MY GOD was Jane Austen WASTING HER TIME?
Believe me, I'll be writing back to them.
For God's sake - I'm a writer by vocation and hopefully by profession in the very near future. I know about writing, about making 'tough' decisions for a good plot. And I know good story telling.
The RH series final WASN'T it and NO FORCE ON EARTH will EVER convince me otherwise.
Suck it, Auntie Beeb - I'm not coming anywhere NEAR the third series of Robin Hood is THAT'S your attitude.
Edit: Yup - as I thought. This is a standard responce. One of my other f-listies has recieved exactly the same letter. I am not at all surprised, but I am bitterly disappointed.
This isn't good enough. I'm writing back to them. They have to know - this isn't good enough.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-16 02:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:30 pm (UTC)My main peeve, was the part about Guy 'will not get away with it'. I was not worried about that!!! Grrr....
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:31 pm (UTC)Though I really don't see how killing Marian was the only way to stop storylines becoming stale and being able to introduce new characters? Infact, that would probably be better WITH Marian in there and cause some angst between Rob/Marian and Guy/Marian or something.
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:38 pm (UTC)Robin Hood is a returning drama series that we hope will be entertaining families for years to come.
My God, how long are they going to stretch it out? YEARS? As in more than season 3? *cringes*
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:46 pm (UTC)I wouldn't put up with that either. I'm quite appalled by that response actually. I thought you raised some serious issues but if they're just going to brush you off like that then I agree with you writing until they give you a legitimate answer.
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:47 pm (UTC)I was surprised watching her die, but well, many character from TV shows I love died and it often turned out interesting and good, even though the reasons for killing the character off were stupid and made me think 'wtf?' more than once.
But I think killing Marian was intersting, because that way Robin lost the most important person in his life and this leaves a trauma. We know that Robin isn't very good at coping with that, so at least that will be 'fun' to watch. I'm actually looking foward to that.
I was more disappointed by Robin's response to Marian's death because in the finale of season one he was about to break down, and he would have if the Sheriff hadn't showed up. This time he didn't seem sad, nor shocked, nor broken, and this time she died for real..
But getting rid of Djack like that really annoyed me, because first of all she was a woman, and secondly the Saracen background made her an interesting character and I liked that she had a thing for science, because hey, we haven't seen many women beating the men at that game on TV, have we?
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Date: 2008-01-16 06:41 pm (UTC)They had their time... Robin was so upset because he felt they did it wrong, that they should be together, and she can't die because he hadn't told her he loved her. Djaq going, "You love her, she loves you" does not count. it's not til the middle of Season 2 that Robin FINALLY says it. And Season 2, yes they didn't have an eternity, but they had time, they expressed their love, and they fought together. He doesn't have regrets this time, well he's Robin, he always has regrets, but not as many.
On the other hand, Marian dying SUCKS worse than this cold I have right now. Who gets sick the first week of a new semester? ARGH! I think it's going to hurt the show, the audience, Marian was very much loved by the audience. And yes, I watch way too much TV, and I can deal with characters being killed off. Boone died in Lost, I was shocked, but he died trying to get help. Charlie died and for the same purpose. But there has to be honor in these killings... it can't be for stupid reasons. If an actor wants to leave FINE... but give them the honor and respect of their character dying in a memorable, honorable, in character death. And that is why I don't like Marian's death! It's barely honorable, she died to save the King, but Gisborne attacked an unarmed woman. It was not in character... Marian is smarter than that, and yes though memorable... it was not memorable in a good way.
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:57 pm (UTC)Their line "what mattered most to Robin was Marian" may come back to haunt them as I think she also mattered most to many viewers! If not Marian herself, then surely the romantic storyline between that pair from the most familiar version of the legend.
I applaud your fury in writing them again and hope you get some sort of acknowledgement to the issues you've raised.
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Date: 2008-01-16 02:59 pm (UTC)The way I look at it is to compare this situation with the response of fans to Billie Piper's exit in Doctor Who. I know both shows and characters are entirely different but the comparison helps. Both actresses wanted to leave their respective shows, leaving fans inevitably disappointed. And yet after Doomsday aired I don't remember anyone feeling betrayed by the writers to the extent that they did after RH's finale because Rose was given an acceptable, in character exit. The complaint isn't about the fact that Marian and Djaq left, it's the way the story was constructed that is so disappointing.
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Date: 2008-01-16 03:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-16 03:16 pm (UTC)It's always a bit ridiculous to pimp your next series in a response like this - a bit like Supermarkets saying, "We're sorry our goods gave you food poisoning and destroyed your faith in us. Here, have a voucher!!"
They better give us some kick-ass girls/women in S3 if we're going to remain two down.
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Date: 2008-01-16 03:32 pm (UTC)It is.
This is horseshit. Period.
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Date: 2008-01-16 03:46 pm (UTC)Sexondly: ..... I'm even more pissed off. I could have LIVED with that finale if it had just been the last ever show, but dragging it on for another series or more without MARIAN who is as much a part of the legend as Robin? WITHOUT ANY STRONG MAIN FEMALE CHARACTERS AT ALL?
... I have no words. *Protects Doctor Who and Torchwood from the BBC's evil*
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Date: 2008-01-16 04:45 pm (UTC)We felt that Robin Hood mattered most to our audience, and what mattered most to Robin was Marian...and therein lay the most compelling and dramatic climax to the end of Series 2.
OK OK the last thing I want to hear is that she was killed off to serve another character's story arc! God the BBC just don't get it do they? Good luck with writing back to them.
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Date: 2008-01-16 05:24 pm (UTC)However. With the points you made, they at least should have added a PS referring to your particular position.
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Date: 2008-01-16 05:49 pm (UTC)It was an inventive way to get out of a love triangle. For as long as Guy or Marian lived such a triangle would have continued, if Guy died then the triangle is gone, if Marian dies then the triangle is gone. If Robin had died that would have ruined the series, it being called Robin Hood and all. Guy would never have just walked away from Marian, he might have got over it in several years, but not quickly or submissively so they had to think of something else which would fit the characters: Guy turned mad by jealousy, Marian dying for her country.
The BBC has better things to do than reply to the hundreds of letters it receives about its hundreds of programs. What did you expect? Contact the actual writers in person rather than the producers or somebody like that.
I was suprised Marian died because it was so unexpected, which almost makes it a good ending, it was totally fresh.
Just because you write by vocation does not mean you know everything about story telling, that is in the opinion of the beholder. The people who wrote this are screenwriters by profession and as such must earn their keep and be original and probably know lots about writing for television. You are not a professional (just hoping to be one is not good enough). I think that perhaps the writers had little choice over how Marian died, in which case they did splendidly as they made it convincing in the end and it was very well done.
I certainly do not feel betrayed by them, as passioantely as you feel you have. I certinaly don't think any sexist trangressions made were seriously meant or seriously offended "thousands of women". I actually feel annoyed that you are overeacting. If you know so much about story telling then surely you'd agree that having an equal number of females and males in a series purely for the sake of it then that could damage the story. Robin Hood and his Merry Men for exmaple. Not "Robin Hood and his Merry Men And Women", or "evil Sheriff and his henchwoman Gillian".
I really don't get what stereotypes you are complaining about. I am fed up with the steroetype of "tough" women who "fight like men", to me it was more sexist of Djaq to keep her hair short and act like a guy than it was for allowing Will to look after her(it was still her choice). But again, perhaps Djaq had to keep her hair short to disguise herself, not insult thousands of women viewers.
I am not betrayed at all. In fact I have played Marian in a version of Robin Hood where we killed her off. That was purely for a joke which was created by females only who are unlikely to be sexist to themselves.
I am sorry if this is a bit of a rant, I am just pointing out the other side's view.
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Date: 2008-01-16 09:55 pm (UTC)I AM a professional writer. And most of my work has been for broadcast, which means I understand time constraints and audience figures and the sensibilities of censors and all of that. And believe me, that was one bad episode. As in, almost unwatchable.
That said, I do think the writers were in a bit of a bind. Lucy Griffiths wanted out. For reasons I've posted elsewhere, I think Anjali Jay wanted out, too, at least temporarily. Because of the very nature of the Robin Hood legend, the writers are rather constrained as to how many major female characters they can have to begin with, let alone how many STRONG female characters. What do they do to get rid of the only two they've got? Actually, I can think of a lot of things off the top of my head--Marian taking a time-out in a convent as she was always saying she would, Marian staying the Holy Land with some Crusader uncle (there were actually a LOT of European women with the Crusaders, apparently), Marian dying in a fair fight, DJAQ dying in a fair fight, Djaq staying in the Holy Land simply because she's homesick, Djaq staying in the Holy Land because she can do more good there than with Robin--but I think what happened was that somebody panicked, maybe because they had a short notice as to who was or was not coming back, and even whether the show was coming back. Whether it was the writers or panicked or somebody above them, I can't say.
What I've wondered is how much of this to blame the BBC for and how much of it is the fault of Tiger Aspect. Has anybody written TA to get their take?
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Date: 2008-01-16 06:13 pm (UTC)you definitely need to write back and let them know they missed the point. just keep it short and simple. something like "the fact that marian dies is not the issue here, it's the way in which she dies that we have a problem with. we feel it was misogynistic and melodramatic and an all around poor handling of the characters. marian was acting out of character and setting a bad example for girls who look up to her. she's a strong, intelligent, courageous, individual who should have gone down fighting with a sword in hand, not stabbed while taunting a jealous ex-lover. dying for "love" isn't romantic or heroic and shouldn't be glorified like that.
claire danes says it best here, in this clip from "stage beauty": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Udy7vpmQkI&feature=related
"you never fought! you just died, beautifully! a WOMAN would FIGHT!"
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Date: 2008-01-17 12:41 am (UTC)(no subject)
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2008-01-17 08:12 pm (UTC) - Expandno subject
Date: 2008-01-16 06:32 pm (UTC)and now for the unserious thing i'm posting: could you metion that i don't like them anymore vecause they killed carter tto and i want carter back because he is the only one in the serie that for wath i know actually faced himself ,his past and his present and lots of people have trouble doing that !!!
simple fact gime back carter or i won't watch it anymore!! (big lie but still)
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Date: 2008-01-16 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-17 12:39 am (UTC)For one thing, I could care LESS about Guy's emotional trauma after this. If they wanted the show to be about Guy, then they should have named the show after him. But that's the angry storyteller in me. I'm sick of freaking broody Guy. And along those lines, since when has Marian ever been in the way of new storylines/new characters?!
Yeah. I won't be watching series three either. The last two episodes were like some very patchy, horribly dramatized fanfiction.
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Date: 2008-01-17 04:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-17 08:30 pm (UTC)As it is, I don't want this type of response - it's dismissive. Basically they're telling us to suck it up and watch or give up on the show and if those are my only two options. I know what mine will be.
I don't want to watch Blackhat!guy and Angsty!Robin for another 13 episodes. At least with Marian around, Guy was more interesting. Now what??? They've written themselves into a corner and it wasn't a bright move. I know the whole "marian wasn't in the original legend" line and I don't care. The legend evolved into one where she was with Robin and the Merry Men - it's what legends do. She became an integral character.
To the traditionalists, however, I'd point out that in the original legends guy would already be history, he was only given a much higher position and importance in later versions. His character evolved into a more important character and people have accepted that, why not accept Marian's importance to the story?
One thing that never changed was that Will was one of the most loyal men to Robin until the day he died. Where is he now? Oh yeah...back in the holy land with Submissive!Djaq. What's she going to do now - fight for her own people, kill englishmen by day and come home to one at night?
Sigh - the whole thing is irritating.
BTW - I friended you, hope that's ok :)
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Date: 2008-01-17 08:34 pm (UTC)It's not good enough and I intent to write back as well. :(
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Date: 2008-01-19 04:02 am (UTC)I am NOT watching Season 3. What's the point? Marian's the heart of that show and they killed her. Call me immature but I hope and wish season 3 would be a FLOP.
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Date: 2008-01-19 04:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-20 11:19 am (UTC)would you mind if i friended you?
Amy
Comments from the US
Date: 2008-01-20 09:06 pm (UTC)I can see some interesting changes happening for season 3. In particular, Robin and his gang will have to deal with the loss of such a central character to the series while struggling with how it will change them. Consider how their actions will be affected by such and earth-shattering event. Will Robin Hood seek revenge against Sir Guy? Almost certainly. But will he go through with it?
Robin Hood is in many ways considered infallible in modern mythology. The series now has the opportunity to show how painfully difficult being a hero-of-the-people can be.
As a final thought, I'd like everyone to consider the last time they were emotionally moved by events of a television show. More often than not, television is flat, mindless entertainment (and I use the word "entertainment" loosely). The fact that Robin Hood has caused such passion in its viewers is a big accomplishment for everyone involved in producing the show.
The rant above is one of the steps in the mourning process, I suppose. First there's denial, then anger, then bargaining (and how do you bargain for someone's return from death?), then depression/mourning and finally acceptance.
Seems to me that the writers of Robin Hood have created exactly the reaction one would expect. Kudos to them.
Jason Huebel
Orange, TX
Re: Comments from the US
Date: 2008-01-22 02:23 am (UTC)Looking at it from a non-storyline perspective, it's irresponsible writing and completely uncalled for in family entertainment. A show geared for families is not the time to be experimental in a legend. Look at the number of responses in forums and such from mothers of children who couldn't sleep for a week. Look at the number of women from shelters who watched the show because Marian and Djaq exhibited such powerful women.
Thank you for saving me from Season Two
Date: 2008-01-31 07:25 pm (UTC)